Economic Vitality Unplugged

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[Keith] Welcome to Economic Vitality Unplugged, where we explore the people and the partnership shaping the

future of Tallahassee and Leon County's economy. I'm your host Keith Bowers with the Office of Economic Vitality.

Today we're diving into the skilled talent pipeline, what it takes to build it, sustain it, and

ensure that it meets the evolving needs of our employers and communities. My guest is someone that I deeply respect in this

space. BJ Van Camp, the Director of Lively Technical College. BJ, welcome to the show! [BJ] Thank you,

Keith. [Keith] Well, let's dive right into it. Before we get started, I want to talk about a couple of things.

So, let's take a step back. How did you find your way into workforce development and then what led you to

this work? [BJ] It's been a long path. I have only ever wanted to be an educator,

a teacher, from knee high. And so that was figured out early on. I spent a lot

of time in the K-12 landscape, but always in Title 1 schools, always looking

for that opportunity to help students find their path. Find the skills that

they could build on so that they would feel successful in this world we call education. But growing

up, I was the odd duck in my home. I was the nerd that loved school. That's why I go

to school every single day for my entire life. But I came from a family of trades people.

My grandfather, who was a retired veteran, was an airplane mechanic. And so, growing up,

I would see him tearing things apart, putting it back together. He was that person. I didn't have

to take my car to a mechanic because those skills generalized for him. My dad and my

uncle developed their own business. I am not from Tallahassee, even though I've lived here longer

than my hometown. I'm from outside of Tampa, where it rarely get lower than 50 degrees,

even in the winter. So they had a business of building pool enclosures. So growing up

and watching them be able to turn somebody's dream into a reality of a

completed project and hearing the pride of their work and of their craftsmanship.

I knew I didn't have that skillset so when you can't do it, you teach it. So I moved on to teaching

but I think it was that understanding of people having different giftedness. Not just

reading, not just traditional math, but to be able to put all those things together. That's

what I saw in my family and that is, I think, what makes this such a perfect fit for

me and my journey of being an educator. Because now I get to do that at a broader landscape

and be part of a louder conversation. Not just for students, but for business and for our community.

[Keith] Wow, that's a great story, and it's interesting that you made the nexus between education and occupation.

And you're right. This basically speaks to what you're currently doing right now in real time.

So that is a wonderful story. So, let's talk about how Lively actually uses data

to make decisions. You know the workforce needs are always evolving. The landscape

and the workplace is changing. It's so dynamic. So how does Lively keep up? How do you make sure that

the programs that you're offering are relevant to the employers today? [BJ] Good question!

And you hit the nail on the head in the title of this podcast, it's about sustainability. It's

not trying to find a quick solution. It's trying to find the long and the lasting

solution. So data does that. And I think you and I could talk all day– [Keith] Oh, yeah, yeah. [BJ] ...about data, but

there is so much data out there. The things that we use most as my team, my administrative

team, my instructors is first a piece of data from DOE, from the Department of Education here

in Florida. It's called FETPIP. And so each of those letters stand for something. It's

the Florida Educational Training Placement Informational Program. Now that's lag

data. But what it does is it shows us if we're meeting the mark on the people we are

set up to serve. So, Lively Technical College is under the umbrella of Leon County

Schools, with intention to ensure broad accessibility to our community. So

what that data shows is how many people are matriculating from high school, the K-12 system,

into a post-secondary system. Whether it's a technical college system, a state and university

system. And so you'll see that trend data all the way back from 2016 to 2022.

Are we promoting this pathway? Are we ensuring the accessibility to the students

we serve? Because if you see high numbers of graduates that aren't matriculating,

that puts us on the path to making sure we're out there promoting talking, recruiting, doing the community

outreach. And also, I use that when I'm talking to parents, when I'm talking to

members of our community because it puts a value on what the post-secondary training gives.

It will show the earning potential or the earnings of people with just a high school diploma,

versus people with industry credentials from a post-secondary institution like Lively

or from a college or university system. That's really, really powerful. But again,

that's lag data. So when we're looking at really on-the-spot data, I use Career

Source, the occupational targeted list. I liken it to a Cliff Notes version.

So it's all of our targeted industries. It shows as the entry-level wage, the median

wage, but really what I highlight on that is the growth, the trend over

time of the potential growth of the jobs. 'Cause again, it's about sustainability.

Lively is prime to be able to start programs quickly, but our goal is not being the business

of opening and closing programs. It's opening the programs that meet a large need,

a generalized need, in our community so that we have that sustainability of being a pipeline.

But then again, using OEV data, and I clearly recognize them sitting across from

the expert about that data, but that is a holistic view of our community.

It has targeted industry data, but it gets down to that community level. What is happening locally?

Where are businesses coming? Where are the housing being built? We have a building trades program that supports

that, but also the demographic data. And there's more, but those are the highlights of the data we

use, 'cause it is finding that right solution—not 'a' solution—but the 'right' solution

to meet the needs of our community. [Keith] Right. So once you gather this data, and basically

synthesize and analyze this data, how does that translate into programs?

Do you take that data and say now we see that there's a demand and we see a rising demand in this certain

segment of the targeted industries, and then now that you have that data, what do you and your

team do beyond that point? [BJ] This is where it's not as clinical, because then we take it back to

our partners. We take it back to the business and industry community. Hey, what are 'your' thoughts?

What do 'you' see? Because they are on the cutting edge. They know the problem before it's public,

before 'we' are aware, because we are there in the support—in the pipeline—but they're

in the trenches. So we always take it back to them. Sometimes it's a much quicker solution than

starting a brand new program. Sometimes it's embedding a credential, sometimes it's embedding

a specific piece of equipment to give a targeted and focused training to our graduates.

And so, it's maintaining that discussion and that dialogue with our business and industry partners that

is critical. They will lead us in the right direction. They have a vested interest in our graduates

and in our programs, being viable and being sustained. [Keith] Excellent, excellent.

One of the things that I admire most about Lively is the focus on credentials that have a value in the market. How do you

decide which credentials to include? Is that part of the conversation that you have with your community partners in the business industry?

[BJ] 100%. So in our space, we know what the MCL is, the Master Credential List,

that being part of the REACH Act, is really a tool for the public—not just for educators, not

just for business and industry. It is like the inside scoop on what is the credential

that has the highest return on investment. So we always analyze that, we use that

in our program meetings, we use those in our Occupational Advisory Council meetings,

because as you know, the pages and pages of credentials, we bring that to

business and industry and say, "Out of these, what has the highest market value for you?"

Often—or sometimes, not often. Sometimes, we find there are credentials not on that list. So in our space,

we work with DOE and advocate and lobby to get the credentials that business and industry

is voicing a need for on that Master Credential List. But we use that as an outcome

measure for our students. Our students, when they leave our program, they have a skill to

meet an industry need at an entry level. But that credential also carries a market value.

It's that documented knowledge of, "You can put me to the test, or put me to work immediately, with this

focused skill that might be needed." But, again, it is also a pathway to stack credentials.

And I hope we get a chance to talk about career dual enrollment [Keith] Yes. [BJ] because we have programs in

our high schools that offer credentials that can be stacked. So you might earn this as a high

school student. You matriculate to Lively and then you earn this higher level or more of the

professional credential as you're continuing to get experience in the lab or in the workplace

through work-based learning and so credentials are really, really important for

our students in terms of their marketability, but it also gives them that success

factor. [Keith] Yeah. [BJ] That pride factor. [Keith] Right, you completed something. [BJ] "I did this and 'this' is what I have to show you," [Keith] Exacty, exactly. [BJ] ...and

it's not just about the industry credentials. What we have heard routinely,

and I wonder if you hear it as well, is an emphasis on soft skills.

It's not just about knowing how to do the work. It's being able to play well with others. [Keith] Yeah, absolutely.

[BJ] Communicate, show up on time, and do what you say you're going to do. So that's another piece of

the puzzle that we 'really' focus on in our programs. Our workplace and

employability skills, those soft skills. So when we have a graduate that leaves Lively, you have your

college diploma, which is an amazing goal to work towards. In addition, you have your Florida

Ready To Work soft skills credential, and then you have your industry credential.

All three, 'cause we are really trying to provide a whole employee [Keith] Yes. [BJ] ...into the industry and

into the workforce. [Keith] That's what's needed, too, because the credentials get you in the door, but those soft

skills... [BJ] 'Keep' you there! [Keith] Keep you in the door! So, you mentioned it, let's talk about dual enrollment. You've already

leaned into this as a way to introduce students to the workforce opportunities. How's that going for you?

[BJ] It's amazing. It is amazing to see someone who is not a hundred percent certain

about what they want to do. Often times, and your counterpart, Darryl Jones, you know,

on the graduation stages, are (asked), "What's next?"...and 'too' often, students

don't have an answer to that question. So, having this opportunity to dialogue on your podcast,

I hope listeners, the audience, parents, moms, and dads, and grandmas hear: "Lively Technical College is

an answer to that." But when we can catch them earlier than at the point they're graduating and walking

across that stage, we have time. We have time to give them

an opportunity to just develop an innate talent, to develop

an interest that may keep them in school and ensure that they walk across

that graduation stage. That's really, really important because sometimes students don't see

the relevancy between what they're doing in a classroom, in the four walls and a classroom.

And how that going to support their next steps in a college, or in

a career, and in an industry. My biggest passion and purpose is to connect education to career. [Keith] Yes.

[BJ] ...and so they get a chance to do that in a really relevant and hands-on way. It's completely

at no cost to students so they're developing skills, they're developing their passion and their purpose.

They're developing confidence in themselves. So when they graduate, they are ready to step into a workplace.

They are ready to step into their position. But I hope their path doesn't end there because that's going back

to the idea of stackable credentials. Experience is the best teacher. We all know that. [Keith] Yeah.

[BJ] So, you've got to start somewhere. But, at a point, that experience needs to be supported

with more training and more development. And that's also the space Lively is at. With our apprenticeship

programs and our externship programs. Come back, get that next level of training as well.

Because, again, sustainability—not just for 'our' programs, but for business and industry.

We have to have a plan to support at 'all' levels of an organization. Entry-level positions

that mid-level position as well, that's the next step. [Keith] Yeah, well, it sounds like it's a

great opportunity, like you said, for students that are currently enrolled in high school, that

they get an exposure to what it looks like to actually pursue this career path, and a

lot of times people don't do certain things because they kind of self-diagnosed and say, "Well, I can't do this,

and I can't do this," or, "It's going to require me to do XYZ", but through a dual enrollment

program, they can kind of test the waters and maybe determine which fields might not

be best-suited for their talents and skills, [BJ] Yes. [Keith] ...and which ones are, so that's great. [BJ] And there's a strategy

in which programs are in our high schools, so Lively offers 'thirty' different programs.

We can't support thirty programs in each of our local high schools, so the strategy is including

the programs for our high schools that generalize, so we have welding,

as we know, generalizes across a lot of business and industry—that

skill set. Technicians, automotive technicians, because you can work in an automotive industry,

you can work in a small engine, you can work in diesel, heavy equipment, and so I think that's

also key. Having the experience, getting your toes wet, y'know dipping

your toes in, in a way that will be able to generalize. 'Cause at sixteen, I knew what I wanted to do.

I wanted to be an educator, but most students don't. So, it's important to give them a wide range of

experiences [Keith] Right. [BJ] that are really representative of the work,

of the industry. And I think that's what's key and why we want students, for a very short time

at least, to matriculate over to Lively's main campus and experience the real work environment—

seven and a half hours a day, in a lab, working on the equipment—I think is essential, and

that's what we hear with feedback from business and industry, as well. [Keith] Yeah, I mean, that's so powerful. It saves money,

it saves the families' money, it gives the students confidence, and it helps the businesses get talent sooner.

[BJ] Absolutely. [Keith] So, that is amazing. So you mentioned it earlier, your relationship with the business community, that's

something that is very admirable. How do your employers engage with your organizations? How

do employers link into Lively? [BJ] I think first and foremost,

our instructors come from industry. There is not one

instructor that has not started and has not gained decades of experience in business

and industry. So, they come with those networks. They come with those relationships.

So that's first and foremost, is staying connected in that way. Our instructors have continuing

education, as well. They're teaching entry-level, but they are experts in their field. So maintaining

those relationships, so they can get out there and do those fun and exciting things for them–

installing or fixing, you know, an engine. Whatever it is. Our nurses doing

'Walk With a Doc,' and y'know, and staying involved with what are the pressing issues in health care.

Through those relationships, we formally invite business and industry partners to be on

advisory boards. So, we have an Institutional Advisory Council, so that– those are broad strokes for

programs, for direction, for infrastructure, all of those things.

But, then we have programmatic occupational advisory committees. So that's where we pull out

our plan books, our curriculum frameworks. So, if you can paint the picture,

the frameworks are a list of competencies we have to teach from the state. Well, they're all represented

by a bullet, so they all– are the same size. But what business and industry does (is say), "This bullet

needs to be big, because you need to spend at least thirty percent of the time they are here doing

this." (and) "This bullet can be decreased in a ten font, [Keith] Yeah. [BJ] ...because it's a piece we need to cover,

but it's not a priority." So, that's the benefit of those programmatic advisory councils,

and we meet with them twice a year. There's 'always' conversations, always, both ways.

Our instructors are calling our business and industry for work-based learning opportunities. We want to get them on

a job site. We want our students to see behind the curtain. We want our students to be with

a journeymen, or with a licensed and trained individual technician, so that

they 'really' understand what it means to be in that industry. But on the flip-side, we are inviting

business and industry on to our campus. Look at our equipment, what do we need to update? [Keith] Yeah, is this (equipment) still relevant?

[BJ] What do we need to warehouse? So, it goes both ways. I think another key way that,

if I am a business, if I'm an industry, if I am an invested person in our community—

another way to support is through scholarships and through mentorship relationships,

by being a guest speaker. Often we have business and industry recruiting right from our classrooms,

'cause they have open positions! [Keith] Yeah. [BJ] Like, that's the currency—our graduates. But, to continue

that accessibility and continue to ensure that people can have the opportunity to

be in our programs—mentoring is often that defining factor. We serve

a community, 32304– that zip code gets spoken about a lot in Tallahassee

for a reason. And so, sometimes students don't understand the power of

a post-secondary training or they don't believe, "I can be successful at that." Having that

person that's in their corner that's saying, "Yes you can, and I'm going to hold your hand along the way until you

can walk forward on your own," is just 'so' key! But, it's underutilized, and so that's

a way anyone can serve. And then sponsoring scholarships. A lot of our students

come as 18/19 year olds. We except Florida Prepaid, so they have a full

ride. We have other students that come, that have a family, that are making

a career change, that have to continue to pay the rent, pay for the groceries, pay for all of those things.

And so, oftentimes scholarships or additional funding sources are necessary

and important for them. That's a way that business and industry can support our community

through access to training. [Keith] And that's an intentional investment. [BJ] One hundred percent. [Keith] That's an intentional investment that's going to have

large returns for that entity, that company, that invests in that student. [BJ] Um-hum! [Keith] Definitely.

So, we're getting close to our end here. So what is on the horizon for Lively and where do you

see things going right now? [BJ] Oh good question. Lively has been in Tallahassee

for 85 years. We consider ourselves a leader in workforce development. We have

stood up programs that have withstood the test of time, because I think they

are needed and necessary. But it's the perspective that I want business and industry is to recognize

Lively Technical College as the 'Titan' career and technical education. [Keith] And you guys just unveiled

your new mascot. [BJ] Yes, we did, with intention! And so, it's bringing that

to the forefront. Because when you envision Titan—because we chose that deliberately—it brings

to mind an idea of resilience, of persistence, of grit. I personally

always think of the titans of industry: Carnegie, Rockefeller. They forged

ahead in spite of barriers. They overcame obstacles. They saw things different than their

contemporaries. And that's what Lively really does. By, number one, really making an investment

in quality programs. Our instructors tell me what they need. It's my job to give it to them

and make that happen. Then, it is really, really serving our business and industry.

Having those discussions and forming those deep and lasting relationships

with key players in the industry. And that's what the recipe for success is. And that's how

and why we think we are the Titans of career and technical education. [Keith] That is awesome.

So, BJ. First of all, thank you so much for taking time to educate me and the

community, our broader community. I think everyone really needs to listen to this conversation because it has so much

relevance now. And, as you and I talked before about data, the key factor is: you drive around Tallahassee

and I would say 8 out of 10 businesses have a help wanted sign. [BJ] Yes, they do! [Keith] And the conversations

that we're having with folks on our end, when we try to recruit companies here, is workforce.

You know, where are we going to get qualified, trained employees? And one of those

selling points, the unique selling features of our community when I go out and start to talk to these companies

is that we not only have a ready workforce, but we are investing in the

pipeline, which you guys play such a big role in making sure that that pipeline

talent stays robust, it stays relevant. And, as you mentioned, it's not only the technical aspects,

but the soft skills that also come along with that. So I can't underscore how

much of a role that Lively plays into our ability to attract

outside investments into this community. So, I want to thank you. You and your

team! You have an amazing team! I met a number of folks on your team and what I found so impressive is that they

are happy, they are fired up, they are very invested in the success of the students,

which means that they're invested in the success of our community. [BJ] Of our community. And I think when you have passion

and purpose, it creates that synergy. And that's what you feel when you come on our campus as a student, as a

visitor, as a business partner. So, thank you for that. [Keith] No, no. Thank you. [BJ] Thank you for this opportunity.

'Cause I think there's still a stigma around the trades, around that work, which is

heartbreaking, because it's so valuable and critical. Like, who do you call

when you don't have running water in your home and you can't cook? [Keith] Yeah. Right. [BJ] You call a plumber. There is

value and there's respect in that. In someone that is going to come on a Friday night,

late at night, or on a Saturday. And so, I think, having the opportunity to have some

of 'your' time—Lively and trades having some of your time. I hope it'll elevate that in

the public perception 'cause our school system is still a very traditionally-minded

school system where college is the "successful" path. And if you can't do that,

well...then let's consider this (technical education). And we've 'got' to turn that on its ear. [Keith] We gotta turn it around. [BJ] We have to, because

it is so important that we have people that serve—right? Being a plumber, being an electrician,

being a teacher, being a doctor—we all serve our community. So, I just wanted to thank you

for this. Like, that's what's really meaningful too.

[Keith] And to our listeners, if you want to learn more about workforce programs or how

to connect with Lively, you can visit their website LivelyTech.com

And we also are going to have a link to

Lively's offerings on our website, so you can visit our website. But they are definitely

part of the talent development pipeline in our community.

This has been Economic Vitality Unplugged. Until next time,

keep investing in people, because people build prosperity.

And, again, thank you BJ for everything that you're doing.

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